Welcome!

[Nopsku]

On behalf of myself and Ryhmä Rämä (Our battlegroup, one of the many) I'd like to welcome all you travellers that are intrested to join and discuss in Sotahuuto forums. It is wonderful to know we have neighbours that share the same intrest in this fine activity and I hope to even see some of you participating in our summer main event.

Feel free to ask anything, I believe there is always eager people to answer you. I'd also like to hear more from padded weapon fighting in Estonia in general.

Once again, welcome!

[Bernard]

Hello to You all.

As I've stated in private conversations with organizers the first thing to consider is weapon standards and rules. So if anyone can help the organizers by translating the materials to English - please do so! We and they need Your help!

At our part we're trying to find as many Finnish speaking people (there are quite a few) as possible to translate more important parts of this forum and/or sotahuunto.fi - still experience shows that translators and compilers of information are always in short demand.

--

Now to lighter matters.

Currently there are quite many Estonian fighters interested in joining in - some for just the travels sake (and being abroad) others from a more professional perspective, wanting to test their mettle with fighter unknown to them (we are tired of pitting our best against our best).

Espoo is conveniently near to Helsinki, therefore the traveling costs can be kept quite reasonable.

You should look forward to seeing us even this year at Sotahuunto 2007.

--

Once again, hello to everybody and the chance of getting to know you all is a pleasure and a honor.

Sincerely Yours,

Allan Bernard
VG LARP Club
E-mail:allan@vgk.ee
MSN: bernard10@hot.ee
GSM: (+372) 55 632 698

[Beatific]

Hello,

Excellent, welcome! Nothing more to add at this point.

[Humppamies]

I didn't know that the Sotahuuto has people interested in it abroad. I wonder that's the globalization.

[Bernard]

Actually we were actively looking for contacts in Finland, but sotahuunto was discovered by accident. Still - it's a happy chance and we are greatly interested. It seems like a very good place to meet people with similar interests to ours.

--

For myself, bofferfighting and larp combat is a big part of what my club is active in.

A video montage from a field-battle training in Tallinn (about 100 fighters) - careful 135 MB! - 15 minutes - Xvid encoded avi, AC3 sound.

Koodi: Valitse kaikki

http://www.vgk.planet.ee/video/Lahingtreening_(2005)_XviD_web.avi

(PHPBB forums don't allow for an underslash _ in URL's, therefore you'll have to copy the above address to your browser manually - I am sorry for the inconvenience.)

When watching please note that weapon standards differ and on open trainings the head is not a valid target - but we are adaptable and are used to different battle conditions on various games.

Or feel free to browse our gallery.

[saloneju]

Hey, welcome neighbours!

[Strigo]

Welcome! It would be damn nice to see you people this year! Sotahuuto needs to grow!!

As I've stated in private conversations with organizers the first thing to consider is weapon standards and rules. So if anyone can help the organizers by translating the materials to English - please do so! We and they need Your help!

The problem with this is that, there is still a lot of discussion going on about the rules of this year and that the organizers haven't been very active here on forums. This leads to that the majority is still a little uncertain about the specifics of the rules.

I think there would be many people willing to translate those rules IF we just had them ready and confirmed

Judging from those pictures I can say that your boffers will at least need more padding for Sotahuuto.

[ZamboNet]

And the chainmails needs to be a bit thicker. I guess the rule about the chainmail required ratio between single chain diameter in respect to wires diameter needs to be 25/4 this year also. Meaning with 2mm diameter wire you can have 12,5mm diameter chains.

[saloneju]

And the chainmails needs to be a bit thicker. I guess the rule about the chainmail required ratio between single chain diameter in respect to wires diameter needs to be 25/4 this year also. Meaning with 2mm diameter wire you can have 12,5mm diameter chains.

I did the same perception from your chainmails. 25/4-ratio is valid if the pattern used is european 4in1 (the most common). In any other patterns the thickness/ratio must be at least equivalent in durability.

At first I'd advice you personally to pay attention - like Strigo already pointed - to your boffers if are padded well enough, and then to your armours if they fill the minimum requirements. (Of course any armours that are safe can be used for personal security, but minimum material requirements are set to gain the armour points. For example last year there were 25/4-ratio in chainmails and at least 1mm in thickness in plate armours.)

[Dan]

Hello from me too

Concerning Estonian boffers- we have used this construction for seven years now already. To my knowledge no person has been injured in any ways. It means that no blue eyes and blue spots on the skin (sorry, i don't know the right word) has occured. Usage of this construction from the viewpoint of safety has never been a topic also - so, i can assume that there has been no need for it too.

Boffer safety in Estonia is provided by the weapon check during check-in or briefing. Weapon that is questionable or totally faulty is put away.

Sooner we get to know about your standards for armour then better. Is there any system or standard that is widely used in Finland ?

[N.Hirvelä]

Sooner we get to know about your standards for armour then better. Is there any system or standard that is widely used in Finland ?

I think that most used system is Sotahuuto's rules, almost everyone use it, but there can be some local variation in some groups.
Maybe someone who has better english can translate last years Sotahuuto-rules, because I think there would be not very big changes in this year in core rules and standards.

[ZamboNet]

Here are last years rules as I remember them (please do correct if i remember something wrong):

Armors
-Chainmail: as mentioned before chain diameter/wire diameter should be 25/4
-Plate armour: 1mm thick (metal minimum)
-Leather: 4mm thick leather
-Fabric armor: 15 layers of fabric

Weapons
-General: At the moment only allowed frame material is pvc-pipe (glass-fiber is under discussion, but probably won't be allowed this year - but we keep you informed if that changes). Any part of the weapon must not be so small that it can fit in the eye socket.
-Shorter swords: minimum 8mm padding on sides, 16mm on blade and 10cm stabbing tip of the sword. And only place you can feel the framepipe of the sword is the handle. Also the pommel must be well padded.
-Two handed swords: minimum 15mm padding on sides, 30mm on blade and 15cm stabbing tip of the sword. And only place you can feel the framepipe of the sword is the handle. Also the pommel must be well padded.
-Spears: 1 metre of 15mm padding around the pipe in the hitting end and around 20cm stabbing tip from foam. Better padded "pommel" than in swords.
-Bows: 25 pound limit and the arrows must pass pretty close examination at start and in between every scenario. (Someone else might want to fill the more specific requirements of arrows).
-Shields: must have padded corners and sides that meet the demand about not fitting the eye socket. Also the front of the shield must have at least 8mm (??) padding on it.

General rules
-Hitting arm or leg takes out that limb. If another hit is landed on the same arm/leg you die. Also feet and hand counts as hit.
-Hitting head, torso or stomach kills instantly. Waist and shoulders are counted as torso hit.
-Getting hit from behind you die instantly, unless you know what hit you. For example buttwrap-hits don't kill instantly if you have armor on your back.
-Having a armor gives each place it covers an extra hitpoint so that if you have for example helmet you can take two hits to head in order to die.

[Archibald]

Armors
-Chainmail: as mentioned before chain diameter/wire diameter should be 25/4
-Platemail: 1mm thick metal
-Leather: 4mm thick leather
-Fabric armor: 15 layers of fabric

The diameter is the inner one.

Sport- or plasic armour gives no armour points except for the head. Of course, it is recommended to do something to yellow hardhats


-a

[Bernard]

Please don't judge only by pictures and the video - some of witch are years old and we have evolved ever since.

Most of our plate armor is made of solid steel, 1.5mm thickness.
http://www.dragon.ee/albums/album73/093 ... rvised.jpg
http://www.dragon.ee/albums/albun24/PA290804.jpg

Also most of the chains have 16/4...
http://www.dragon.ee/albums/albuo05/IMG_2136.jpg
...or even up to 12/4 ratio (European 4-1).
http://www.dragon.ee/albums/albuo05/IMG_2146.jpg

Many of the brigandines you saw (with big rings) have been replaced with versions, connected by 10cm riveted rings
http://www.dragon.ee/albums/albuo01/res111721538.jpg
http://www.dragon.ee/albums/albuo01/res72924743.jpg

With leather armor, heavy leather 3-5 mm is used - at times even hardened leather:
http://www.dragon.ee/albums/albun24/PA290807.jpg

Also we are able to produce a wide range of weapons, varying from system to system:
http://www.dragon.ee/albums/albuo01/res_136577950.jpg

And we have literally hundreds of steel helmets.
Closed ones...
http://www.dragon.ee/albums/Meril6viPil ... 093316.jpg
...and simple open helmest
http://www.dragon.ee/albums/Meril6viPil ... 216130.jpg

--

PLEASE don't start a weapon safety or armor regulations argument here. This is a can of worms best not opened in public discussion. More soever if the discussion is still going on in Finnish circles.

The thing is, that we've been doing big battles and regular trainings/tournaments on national level a bit longer than the Finnish and very clear and uniform mass battle rules and regulations have evolved. Safety, being the biggest part of them.

Although I'm sure we are all happy to share them with our neighbors - I still think that they need to come up with their own - I think we will be amazed how similar they are in the end - but that has to be their doing, not ours.

And since we are the visitors, we MUST (even now) in the end either agree to their terms or not participate (the latter is not an option ).


---

None of the less - thank you ALL for your concern. And my big bow to the valiant translators and compilers.


At Your service,
Allan Bernard

[Keisari_P]

Welcome Estonian fighters!
May this be the start of long and fruitfull friendship!

I think your gear looks great and professional! In armouring we might be still a little bit behind you in Finland.

[Bernard]

You . are . courteous and fair spoken!

Yet you praise us more than we are worth, I deem. There is still a long way to go and beside that which is good, there is a lot which is less good or even bad.

Previous speakers - don't mistake my intentions when showing those photos. Your comments are well noted and I am truly thankful for your care and any information you give, will be put to good use. I just wanted to show that in some ways we might contribute to Sotahuuto, not just "measure up".

[KEK]

Hello from me too. I'm the one who, by a lucky chance, dicovered this event.
Im itching for a good battle this summer
... better go and make some more armour.

About weapons.
What kind of pvc-pipe do you use?
I havent seen any usable spears made with pvc-pipe core in Estonia, because it is too flexible and breaks very easily. All usable ones I know of are made with a bamboo core.

[ZamboNet]

Best pvc-pipe for spears is grey 50mm diameter. Most do agree that 32mm pvc pipe is way too flexible for decent spear. Glassfiber could be an option, but as said, it's still under discussion for the safety issues.

[Strigo]

http://www.dragon.ee/albums/albuo01/res111721538.jpg
http://www.dragon.ee/albums/albuo01/res72924743.jpg

I really like that shoulder and neck armour design of oriental mail and plates. It's quite interesting that in your pictures I see many pieces of armour that are inspired by eastern armour. Here in Finland most of the armour is inspired by western medieval pieces.

[KEK]

http://www.dragon.ee/albums/albuo01/res111721538.jpg
http://www.dragon.ee/albums/albuo01/res72924743.jpg

I really like that shoulder and neck armour design of oriental mail and plates. It's quite interesting that in your pictures I see many pieces of armour that are inspired by eastern armour. Here in Finland most of the armour is inspired by western medieval pieces.

There's a simple answer, thous players have eastern origins so naturally they have and interest toward eastern armour.

[Bernard]

Well, to be exact - the armor is not so much of oriental as Slavic origin - Novgorodian (not so far away from us at all).

[Strigo]

Yes, but mail and plates -type of armor is clearly of eastern origin in general. Of course the border between the east and west has never been a clear line. But I quess that during the Middle Ages as an eastern province of Sweden, Finland got more influence from the west than Estonia. Most of the armour for example was brought here from Germany.

edited:
I checked the brief history of Estonia, and it seems that it was long ruled by the Danes and the Teutonic order from Germany, so they must have brought a lot of influence from the west too
But this is getting quite offtopic again anyway.

We're all looking forward to see you at the battlefield

[Beatific]

Judging from the pics I believe your culture indeed seems to be somewhat ahead of our own, and reading your rules in English would be interesting. I believe the main differences will be in what is considered as a safe weapon. Also, Finnish shields have a long tradition of being padded.

I do appreciate your expressed concern for following the Prime Directive (in the Star Trek sense :). It's the best way to go in these matters.

What's the average participant age in your events? That might explain some of the differences... in Finland it was last year a little over 18yrs. I believe your average age is likely to be higher.

[Bernard]

Thank You. Actually no, our average also ranges between 17 and 19 years.

[Mesikämmen]

So, how many of our fine neighbours are going to participate this year, at least?