Nordic Equinox 2007 - the rules

General conversation about anything, hopefully even slightly related to padded-weapon fighting.
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Bernard
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Viesti Kirjoittaja Bernard » Maanantai, 20.08.2007 11:38

Beatific kirjoitti:Here's my best guess on how the AP system works:

a)
A person is wearing plate gauntlets (3p), leather leg greaves (1p), and a 10/2mm chain "t-shirt" (2p)

=> 2 AP everywhere where he has armour. Correct?

b)
If the leather leg greaves are left out of the above example, the person has 3AP on the areas covered by the chain t-shirt and the gauntlets (and of course no AP on the legs). Correct?

Then, another question: Is the foot (i.e. the shoe) a valid target for hits? I guess yes but just to make sure, this was not, if I recall correctly, explicitly mentioned in the rules.
Excellent work Beatific, you got it! 100% correct :D

---

Yes, the foot is a valid target, and so is the hand. Still I wouldn't bother too much on armoring feet, leg protection usually suffices. Gauntlets on the other hand, can make a difference.
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Beatific
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Viesti Kirjoittaja Beatific » Maanantai, 20.08.2007 11:46

So, this means that if I (as I planned to)
- wear a 3p-thickness chain t-shirt
- cover my legs in plate (3p)
- wear 4-in-one japanese style chain gauntlets (2p),
(http://harolds.busythumbs.com/entry_id/ ... viewentry/)

I'll be having three ap's [(2+3+3/3) > 2.5] wherever I have armour.

Still correct? :)
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Bernard
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Viesti Kirjoittaja Bernard » Maanantai, 20.08.2007 12:55

Correct.
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Beatific
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Viesti Kirjoittaja Beatific » Maanantai, 20.08.2007 13:58

Great!

But what happens if the above example is changed so that leather greaves (1p) are added to the arms?

(1+2+3+3)/4 => 2.25 => 2 AP everywhere where the person has armour

In other words, does this way of calculating AP result in scenarios where adding a piece of valid armor actually makes the person worse off than without it?

I have not thought this through... how is it in practice? Does my reasoning go awry at some point? Sorry for the trouble, but I want to understand the system... :)
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Bernard
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Viesti Kirjoittaja Bernard » Maanantai, 20.08.2007 14:12

Now your calculations are a bit off, first of all 2.25 will be rounded up to 3.

So when you work it through, you'll see, that usually the lesser armor does not lessen the general AP. But it might do so in extreme cases.

You see - the point is that "better" armor gives more AP. And since AP are general and not location specific, wearing a piece of "worse" armor means "less protection" all together - hence less AP.

So basically you have a choice - have 1-2 more AP but be vulnerable in certain locations, or have still a reasonable amount of AP, but have them everywhere - just in case. Needless to say that players usually choose the latter.
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Beatific
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Viesti Kirjoittaja Beatific » Maanantai, 20.08.2007 14:48

OK, I see. When all fractions are rounded up to the next whole number, the problem I was worried about pretty much disappears (now, where could I get those 2.5mm elbowcaps... :P )

And just to make sure - by "everywhere", you mean "everywhere where you have armor (regardless of type)"?

So, if not counting the points from helmets, hits on non-armoured spots always deduct hit points.
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N.Hirvelä
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Viesti Kirjoittaja N.Hirvelä » Maanantai, 20.08.2007 19:25

Bernard kirjoitti:
While we are at it - we are going to make an exception with your weapons and allow them, provided they are not INSANELY heavy - please don't add weights (like bolts in the pommel for balancing purposes or etc.) and if at all possible remove the ones you already have added.
I want to know can I use my two-handed sword, with following details:
- drainpipe (?), like PP-tube
- padding is 13mm tubularinsulant everywhere
- It have 10cm
- head is covered with "tripbase" (I don't know word in english) and there is 10cm foam tip
- all is covered by ductape

Sword's lenght would be about 190cm. So how it sounds, can I used it? I try to make it so light than I can.
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Bernard
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Viesti Kirjoittaja Bernard » Maanantai, 20.08.2007 23:31

I'd keep swords shorter (even two-handed), that's my only concern. I believe the tip and padding is well enough built, but the length...

Honest answer - I don't know. I'd have to hold it to tell.

Beatific kirjoitti:And just to make sure - by "everywhere", you mean "everywhere where you have armor (regardless of type)"?

So, if not counting the points from helmets, hits on non-armoured spots always deduct hit points.
Yes, that is correct.
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saloneju
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Viesti Kirjoittaja saloneju » Keskiviikko, 22.08.2007 22:39

Are splint-armours considered also as plates?
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Bernard
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Viesti Kirjoittaja Bernard » Torstai, 23.08.2007 01:09

For convenience - yes.

And to anticipate the next question, the thickness of the metal from which the splints are made, is regarded as armor thickness - not the overall thickness of the overlapping splints.
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JonTzu
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Viesti Kirjoittaja JonTzu » Lauantai, 25.08.2007 20:45

Is half-swordin allowed with great swords? Are butt-spikes allowed in two-handed weapons?
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Bernard
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Viesti Kirjoittaja Bernard » Sunnuntai, 26.08.2007 22:20

Come again? :?
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JonTzu
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Viesti Kirjoittaja JonTzu » Torstai, 30.08.2007 18:41

Bernard kirjoitti:Come again? :?
Half-swording is a technique in which the long sword is grasped with one hand on the hilt, one on the blade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-sword

Butt-spike is a spike attached to the lower end of a polearm. It was used for quick thrusts and shows up in both Italian and German period manuals. Quick googling shows them in:

http://www.eredsul.org/earl_mike/FlameWar/fp4.gif
http://www.westdragonshire.org/PollaxeFiles/fp3.gif

Smashing with long sword pommels was used for the same effect.
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Bernard
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Viesti Kirjoittaja Bernard » Torstai, 06.09.2007 22:38

After a lengthy discussion the answers are following:

Half-swording - allowed

Butt-spikes - allowed if padded sufficiently and the handle is padded also. Under no circumstances can any unpadded surface (i.e. a handle) come in contact with the opponent.
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Beatific
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Viesti Kirjoittaja Beatific » Maanantai, 10.09.2007 22:21

I started to wonder about being unconscious and dying; several questions:

1) How to know - without a watch - when you have lain unconscious for 15 minutes and are dead?
2) In scenarios with respawn, does one still go through the unconscious phase? If yes, I figure that going through the trouble of killing the enemy is not worth it, since this will only let them return to the game sooner. Correct?
3) When unconscious, do you have to lie like a corpse, unmoving,"no matter what"?
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Bernard
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Viesti Kirjoittaja Bernard » Tiistai, 11.09.2007 01:50

1. Just go through the tedious job of slowly counting to 900.

2. No, no unconscious phase there (I fixed it in the scenario description), if you lose all your hit points you go to the respawn area.

3. Basically YES. But use your common sense - if you are in real danger or terrible discomfort the do something about it. Otherwise, no interaction of any kind, with other players.
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Viesti Kirjoittaja Keisari_P » Tiistai, 11.09.2007 04:15

How about these splint armours. They are made of 1,5mm iron. Do they provide 3 ap, even when they are not overlapping?
http://kuvablogi.com/nayta/iso/img644685.jpg
http://kuvablogi.com/nayta/iso/img644686.jpg
If I use them, I'd probably use them the leather side front.
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saloneju
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Viesti Kirjoittaja saloneju » Tiistai, 11.09.2007 12:49

Bernard kirjoitti:
saloneju kirjoitti:Are splint-armours considered also as plates?
For convenience - yes.

And to anticipate the next question, the thickness of the metal from which the splints are made, is regarded as armor thickness - not the overall thickness of the overlapping splints.
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Beatific
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Viesti Kirjoittaja Beatific » Keskiviikko, 12.09.2007 01:48

How many bonus AP's when wearing a closed metal helmet with the visor (now and then) open? :)
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Keisari_P
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Viesti Kirjoittaja Keisari_P » Keskiviikko, 12.09.2007 01:58

I'd imagine, if you hold the visor up, you have 1ap if closed 2ap.
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Beatific
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Viesti Kirjoittaja Beatific » Keskiviikko, 12.09.2007 16:11

I thought so as well. But does this mean that when you're down to the last extra point, opening the visor means that you have no AP left (my suggestion: yes) - and if all your helm bonus points have been spent, you aren't allowed to open your visor (my suggestion: no)?

The devil is in the details, it seems :)

However, I have a more pressing question to ask as well:
How many AP's for padded gloves, such as those used in kendo:
http://www.rendaino.fi/grafiikka/bw_kote.gif
http://www.e-bogu.com/photos/categories/33-T.jpg
http://www.kyoshistore.com/kauppa/images/Image753.jpg

I've worn this kind of glove in my right hand for some time now since it offers much better real protection from the hazards of boffer fighting than for example a chain glove, and is much friendlier towards the opponents than a steel gauntlet. In Sotahuuto 2007, I was given an AP for it - for the hand part, not the wrist.

My guesses from the NE rules' perspective:
1) Could be interpreted as leather armour, with 1 or 2AP (thickness of the hand definitely more like 2AP)
2) Could be interpreted as sports armour, no AP (especially the wrist part does not really resemble any historical armour except gambeson - which offers no protection in the NE rules)
3) Something else, what?

Bernard, what do you think?
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Beatific
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Viesti Kirjoittaja Beatific » Keskiviikko, 12.09.2007 20:53

And one more question:

Looking closely at the rules regarding weapon handedness and allowed combinations, it seems that one is allowed (or at least it is not explicitly forbidden) to use a two handed weapon and a shield.

Of course, another rule says that it's not a valid hit if "by a two handed weapon, only one hand has been used to strike the blow".

But, should the design of the shield permit the shield-hand to hold the weapon too, either together with the shield, or through a quick switch of hands so that the shield does not have to be dropped, ... you get my point, perhaps? Is this within the rules or a pigeon-hole that should explicitly be dealt with?

(Yes, I've already packed my stuff for the trip and seem to have a little idle time to ponder about optimising my weapon combos...) :P
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Bernard
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Viesti Kirjoittaja Bernard » Torstai, 13.09.2007 12:49

No, it's not a loophole, we are aware of it and anyone who's interested can try.

Some rule interpretations:

1. Two handed weapon can not be used one-handedly for striking (the hits won't count). From that arises an interpretation which we accept - you can carry one or several two handed weapons and/or shield(s) and use a two handed weapon one-handedly for blocking. Only striking is forbidden.

2. Only one shield at a time can be used and shield can not be used for striking. Interpretations like fastening the shield to your arm and using weapons with it, are allowed - provided the shield is not used for striking (it can be used for bashing another shield bearer though, if the shields largest diameter is 55cm or more).

---

But now I'm off to Kassinurme. We can continue discussions tomorrow evening. See you there.
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