LARP in Estonia - summary

Conversation prior to Sotahuuto 2007 and feedback afterwards.
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Bernard
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Liittynyt: Keskiviikko, 04.04.2007 02:57
Paikkakunta: Tallinn, Estonia
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LARP in Estonia - summary

Viesti Kirjoittaja Bernard » Torstai, 12.04.2007 15:58

I moved this here form the weapons topic because this discussion requires a topic of its own.
Gnomus kirjoitti:Dear Estonians. I would like to know what kind of larping there is in Estonia. I think much of this fighting vs larping thing is semantics because of different kind of larping.

Disclaimer: This is generalization
In Finnish larp you get your character from gamemasters and your character have predestined personality, contacts, things of intrest and so on. If we would make Sotahuuto as Finnish larp we should make very large web of contact, who knows who and who are doing what. Why everyone has arrived and what are their motivation and objectives.

In few larps that concentrated in fighting there where problem of not having time to be your character and live his/her life because fighting take too big a part of time. Other problem was that some characters could get killed very early and that could do great harm to "plots" on other characters. You would also have problem of dead characters players. You could keep players of dead characters away from larp (it wouldn't be fun play for 15min get killed and then wait for hours to game end), resurrect them (it would be odd to meet your brother {in arms} after you have cryed for his death just moments before) or you could respawn players as fighters withtout much of a character, but soon all orginal "deep" characters would be gone.

Because of these problems Sotahuuto is "bofferfighting event", with as much larping as participant want to do. Organizers require only that your group have somekind of background story fitting for background story of current Sotahuuto (this far Albigensian crusade, Polish-Teutonic war and this years Hundred Years War), your equipment is not too odd (yellow t-shit or stormtrooper armour is out) and hopefully your group have recognisable outfit. As mentioned earlier several groups have distinguished identities and they act accordingly, but this is not required. You can come to Sotahuuto acting as much as you can or cou can just make hastily some kind of tabard for group, get boffers and start bashing your opponents without any larping as long as you don't do anything that would broke atmospeher (for example use battle cry "Coca-cola" or similar things).

I know Finnish GM generated characters are quite rare in central Europe, so this can make difference. Because we don't want to misinform our participant about what Sotahuuto is (there no GM generated characters and no personal "plots") we don't call it larp.

So how is these problems solved in Estonia?
First of all we are constantly trying to bridge the gap between the terms"bofferfighting event" and "larp event" and not let it widen. It's a tiresome and unthankful job because "extremists" from both sides, are constantly trying to get to each-others throats and label events as one, or the other.

Lately it has improved and many fighters recognize that, without the characters, the story and the fantasy, the fighting remains just sports and nothing more. And solely role-players agree, that running around in woods, clad in mail and screaming "DIE YOU BASTARD !!", IS role-playing, no matter what they say or think.

That said we have three major approaches to live roleplaying in general:

1. GM generated characters, no (or very few compared to players) NPC's - that is the same format you have described. Long histories and player vs. player plots are integrated in character descriptions, extensive lists of contacts, most of the props are provided by the game masters. Fighting (if any) is rare and mostly pre-planned. Rules are usually kept very simple. The events are usually not reoccurring. Usually events range from 10-100 players and are held for two days or less.

The game plot evolves from player vs. player conflicts pre-written into characters.

Those games are usually held in confined spaces.


2. Player generated characters, lot of NPC's - the Game Masters provide an extensive background for their world, with complicated rules systems and many legends and rumors. The players choose and write characters according to this info and send them in. The GM's then review the characters, modify them a bit or add some twists. NPC characters are written by the game masters. This type of fantasy is widely popular because it is the closest to ADD or computer games (very popular mediums in itself).

The events are usually held as a series (a campaign) with 2-10 games in one series over a year or couple of years. The games are not very big 10-50 players usually, but they can range from hours to a week in duration.

Extensive amount of roleplaying, in-deep immersion into character (no OG times) and fair amount of action (fighting, running, hiking for kilometers, dodging traps).

The game plot is carefully laid out and as many possibilities of are covered as can be managed. Usually the plot is divided into modules (to better manage necessary NPC's and props) which are intertwined with each other. The modules and plots are usually either "discovered" by players or induced by NPC's - a "classic" fantasy, you might say.

The game areas are as big as possible/necessary, ranging from a house to tens and tens of square kilometers.


3. GM and player generated characters, few NPC's. The background is ere meager and characters are kept short (for some only a name). The world is usually based on actual history or well known literary works (that lessens the load for game masters and players can more easily relate to their characters or write new ones). The events have usually a huge participation from 100-300 players.

The rules are as short as possible but still have to cover vital safety rules for fighting and necessary roleplaying rules for things too difficult or impractical to achieve in real-life.

Despite the short background and character descriptions, there is a copious amount of roleplaying in between fighting (no need to mistake yourself, the main reason for attending those events is to hit someone with a plastic stick, covered in foam). There can be some NPC's or laid out modules and some might arise from conflicts written into more important player characters.

The players are allowed to bring their own characters or twist the characters given to them (is mostly considered "adding meat to the bones").

The game areas are big - not less than say... 5 km2 usually 20-30 km2.


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I would say that we have no "roleplaying events" and "fighting events" as such - there are just larps. Larps with only fighting, larps without fighting and larps where fighting is an option.

So yes - this is a matter of semantics.
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blite
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Liittynyt: Tiistai, 18.07.2006 09:34
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Viesti Kirjoittaja blite » Perjantai, 20.04.2007 14:47

To put it brief, I can see some similar trends in Finnish larp/boffering culture. However, in Finland the split between fighting events and larp events is clearly more eminent. Gnomus actually put it really nicely in his writing: "kills, hit points and resurrections kill the immersion". Like c'mon: "My best friend is dead! Yes! No? She's resurrected now? [Hmm, what should I feel right now?]". And anyway, in massive fighting situations most participants don't give any thoughts on the matter even if asked to. Thus, I think it is good that in Finnish games the fighting is clearly separated from immersive, in-depth character role playing where people matter.

My generalisation of Finnish scene would be that there are fighting events focusing on waging war and larping events that focus on characters. And as such, I think there are certain benefits.

Fighting events like Sotahuuto contain minimal (required) elements of roleplaying and have simple rules for as many as possible to easily follow. I see that this not only should lower the barrier for participating, but also make it easier for the event to focus on the dynamics of battles. For example as there are no multiple armor points or hit points, the aspect of teamwork is clearly emphasized. In sotahuuto there are no Munchkin -style hit point heroes, only lost and won battles between groups.

Finally a point on comparing our larp cultures. Others may correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I see the Finnish larp culture resembles the type 1 role-playing you (Bernard) mentioned in your post. Just for the matter of curiosity, could you give us examples of events like that?
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Aldaron
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Liittynyt: Keskiviikko, 12.07.2006 00:05

Random thoughts

Viesti Kirjoittaja Aldaron » Perjantai, 20.04.2007 22:23

blite's spot on about the finnish larp culture =).

We have had some battle larps, like Hiisisuot VI, Faerun 3.. Some others I didn't participate in. These are a bit thicker on the rules, good fun in general. Immersion is more about being in trouble than being in character though, and if I happen to die, the game usually turns silly from that point on ;). In Hiisisuot VI, for example, the orc that killed me next went on to explain, off-game, that he strips my chainmail from me. With a huge feeling of disillusionment I took off my chain, walked to the spot he said he was carrying me, laid there for a moment.. Being dragged around and looted thoroughly the "hard-core" way was something I enjoyed very much in another larp after dying.

There was a series of Munchkin games too, with player-made characters (I can't say written, because they were mostly numerical). The focus was firmly on whacking others with boffers, hunting for yber loot and finding loopholes from the rules in order to generate a killer character. Like, putting all of one's character points to money and money-maximizing feats and then buying magical potions that would give 100x the stats otherwise possible ;).

When I started LARPing in '96, we'd have a small marp every monday. In practice that meant going into a forest, separating to groups of three, then coming up with characters and a reason for them to stick together, and then randomly bumping into other groups and having a more or less violent encounter with them. And I kinda miss that - I don't think it's around anymore.

But, I must say, those types of larp are a minority, and at least munchkin is almost a not-larp to me. If there's no role, there's one letter missing. Sotahuuto is a LAP, uh, well, boffer-fighting event ;).

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In our LARPs, I guess it's more or less a spoken rule that one should try to avoid killing others too early. Everybody should have their share of role playing and immersion, and usually there's more drama to it too if you wait plenty for the kill. There's another sometimes spoken rule of "the greater drama" rising its head, and that often means not getting rid of unpleasant characters in a clean and discreet fashion. Also, characters are mostly written such that they don't actually want to kill anybody.

All in all, I'd say LARPs where more than 5 characters die during the game are mostly of the horror genre here.

There used to be fantasy games with a "loppumättö", final confrontation, between the orcs and the elves or whatever, in which most characters would die, five minutes before the game would end anyway. I feel this is less common today.
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