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Conversation prior to Sotahuuto 2007 and feedback afterwards.
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sentius
Asemies
Viestit: 10
Liittynyt: Sunnuntai, 08.04.2007 00:22
Paikkakunta: tartu/tallinn

Viesti Kirjoittaja sentius » Sunnuntai, 08.04.2007 00:39

It's hard to say how many of us will make it to the event, but i guess a somewhat reasonable estimate would be between 5 and 15. If I understand everything correctly, that would be enough for a separate battle group? Anyway, the chance to test our skills against previously unfamiliar fighters has created somewhat of a buzz around here, I'll try to make it north and join the fray.

Time to dig up those lovely old 1st gen boffers from ages ago!
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ehk meeter hammast ja tilluke tuvi otsas.
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Bernard
Kapteeni
Viestit: 119
Liittynyt: Keskiviikko, 04.04.2007 02:57
Paikkakunta: Tallinn, Estonia
Viesti:

Viesti Kirjoittaja Bernard » Sunnuntai, 08.04.2007 00:52

As of yet nothing is decided, for we do not know the exact cost per person (and do we get external funding or not).

Only one thing is certain, at least someone will come. But we'll try to do better than that.

Sentius might be right - but then again not - if we get the funding, there will be substantially more. Projects are in the writing.
Beat up new and interesting people, Nordic Equinox 2013

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Azor
Ylläpito
Viestit: 1442
Liittynyt: Keskiviikko, 25.01.2006 03:44
Paikkakunta: Vantaa
Viesti:

Viesti Kirjoittaja Azor » Sunnuntai, 08.04.2007 02:51

sentius kirjoitti:estimate would be between 5 and 15. If I understand everything correctly, that would be enough for a separate battle group
Last year the minimum size for a group was 10 warriors, but we allowed smaller groups to participate as well. The only difference was, that they didn't get the "bulk discount". This year's numbers haven't been confirmed yet.

I would assume this years hosts would be ready to bend with the policy (if you were unable to gather the 10 participants) and give you the discount considering you are coming from another country and so on, but as I said, NOTHING has been confirmed at this point and I really cannot speak for the hosts.
Viimeksi muokannut Azor, Sunnuntai, 08.04.2007 13:18. Yhteensä muokattu 1 kertaa.
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Bernard
Kapteeni
Viestit: 119
Liittynyt: Keskiviikko, 04.04.2007 02:57
Paikkakunta: Tallinn, Estonia
Viesti:

Viesti Kirjoittaja Bernard » Sunnuntai, 08.04.2007 10:15

No need to worry, most likely we'll easily surpass the minimum requierments. And if not there is always the possibilty to join with existing groups (I think there are not many who would mind).
Beat up new and interesting people, Nordic Equinox 2013

13.-15. September

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Kantti
Sotahuuto '11 -järjestäjä
Viestit: 1647
Liittynyt: Tiistai, 21.02.2006 10:41
Paikkakunta: Jyväskylä

Viesti Kirjoittaja Kantti » Tiistai, 10.04.2007 11:08

Azor kirjoitti:
Last year the minimum size for a group was 10 warriors, but we allowed smaller groups to participate as well. The only difference was, that they didn't get the "bulk discount". This year's numbers haven't been confirmed yet.

I would assume this years hosts would be ready to bend with the policy (if you were unable to gather the 10 participants) and give you the discount considering you are coming from another country and so on, but as I said, NOTHING has been confirmed at this point and I really cannot speak for the hosts.
Bulk discount is nice bonus, but only a bonus. We should bear in mind that price of the event in previous years have been around 15 euros per participant and discount has been around 2 euros. So entry fee ain't going to be so crucial as ferry/plane costs. But as far as I know it shouldn't be too expensive to get to Espoo from Estonia - at least when compared to our most Northern groups.
"The Almighty says this must be a fashionable fight. It's drawn the finest people."
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Sorontur
Asemies
Viestit: 10
Liittynyt: Lauantai, 07.04.2007 01:04
Paikkakunta: Tartu, Estonia

Viesti Kirjoittaja Sorontur » Tiistai, 10.04.2007 19:58

It costs around 400 EEK (~25 Euros) to get from Tallinn to Helsingi, that means it will take 50 Euros just to get across the bay and back. Plus transportation to Espoo (what does it cost?) plus the game fee. And all the other expenses. Not a cheap trip.
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Ketku
Sotahuuto '09 -järjestäjä
Viestit: 1097
Liittynyt: Sunnuntai, 26.02.2006 23:31
Paikkakunta: Hämeenlinna / Tampere

Viesti Kirjoittaja Ketku » Tiistai, 10.04.2007 21:25

That's pretty expensive as I can go to Sweden with 3 friends and a car and it is going to cost about 40 euros per person. You should check if you could get any discount because of 2-way trips jan a big group.
Älä selitä, siten et voita ainakaan.
Gnomus
Sotahuuto '11 -järjestäjä
Viestit: 1427
Liittynyt: Perjantai, 10.02.2006 14:13
Paikkakunta: Lahti

Viesti Kirjoittaja Gnomus » Tiistai, 10.04.2007 21:28

Sorontur kirjoitti:It costs around 400 EEK (~25 Euros) to get from Tallinn to Helsingi, that means it will take 50 Euros just to get across the bay and back. Plus transportation to Espoo (what does it cost?) plus the game fee. And all the other expenses. Not a cheap trip.
Not cheap, but no so expansive. For comparison it cost students something like 20-25 euros to get from central Finland to Helsinki if one has to use public transportation. So it cost about same as your trip across the bay. For non-students price is doubled :cry:

Good thing is that we can try to get enough participants to rent a whole bus, so traveling is cheaper than public transportation.
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Archibald
Marsalkka
Viestit: 2182
Liittynyt: Torstai, 30.03.2006 19:56
Paikkakunta: Stockholm

Viesti Kirjoittaja Archibald » Tiistai, 10.04.2007 21:36

Sorontur kirjoitti:It costs around 400 EEK (~25 Euros) to get from Tallinn to Helsingi, that means it will take 50 Euros just to get across the bay and back. Plus transportation to Espoo (what does it cost?) plus the game fee. And all the other expenses. Not a cheap trip.
With train from Helsinki to Espoo and from Espoo with buss to Sotahuuto will cost you one Region Ticket, 1,80€ (up to 16 years) or 3,60€ (17+years) and is valid 100 minutes which should be enough (not if you miss the buss :shock: ). With the other costs, expecting that the event will cost 20€, the final prize would be 75€ or more.

If you are under 10 participants, there is still a chance to get the bulk discount. The previous organizers said that the bulk discount was to get things done clearly and in time, so if you get an "allied team" to pay at the same time, I see nothing wrong in it. A bit complicated, but saves quite much for a team.
Eikö? Poista jos on tuubaa

From Vaasa (400km to Helsinki) it will cost the same (actually somewhat more) and even more if you live further north. But, you pay most in advance so it will not feel so much. My weekend will cost me maybe 30e with everything, but my equipment... 3123,9351 EEK ;)


-a
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sentius
Asemies
Viestit: 10
Liittynyt: Sunnuntai, 08.04.2007 00:22
Paikkakunta: tartu/tallinn

Viesti Kirjoittaja sentius » Tiistai, 10.04.2007 23:02

One thing to consider when talking about prices is also the difference in income, an amount of money that seems reasonable for a weekend's worth of gaming in Finland may seem somewhat unreasonable for the average estonian. Still, most likely lack of time will be more of an issue than money, as Bernard hinted there is a slight chance of compensation, hopefully. I'm not too concerned about these issues, what I am concerned about is weapons' standards, as we will be somewhat limited in doing modifications in the field before the game.

What are your views on 2nd gen boffers (3rd gen latex is out, i've heard)?
Bamboo cores (especially in spears)?
Glass fiber cores?
Weight balancing in the handle?
Black duct-tape?
Continuity of the game (non-stop in-game or scenario-socialize mix)?

The amount on boffering does seem a little exaggerated on last year's photos, but hey, your game, your rules. ;)
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ehk meeter hammast ja tilluke tuvi otsas.
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Archibald
Marsalkka
Viestit: 2182
Liittynyt: Torstai, 30.03.2006 19:56
Paikkakunta: Stockholm

Viesti Kirjoittaja Archibald » Tiistai, 10.04.2007 23:19

sentius kirjoitti:Bamboo cores (especially in spears)?
I won't judge before I have tried one :-O . Wood is forbidden but no-one uses them anyway. Bamboo... I don't think there is anything about it in the rules. I used to fish with a bamboo stick xD
Weight balancing in the handle?
Nothing to worry about.
Black duct-tape?
It's the safety that matters, not the look.
Continuity of the game (non-stop in-game or scenario-socialize mix)?
I don't think there will be much in-game discussion, since this is a "combat event". There is a storyline in the background, the 100 Years' War, so there are discussions wether the scenarios should continue in some chronological order, but it won't affect the game.
but hey, your game, your rules. ;)
Personally I would be most interested in innovations from abroad, especially the bamboo sticks. Is it common there?


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BlueSkie
Herttua
Viestit: 862
Liittynyt: Tiistai, 31.01.2006 19:25
Paikkakunta: Kuopio

Viesti Kirjoittaja BlueSkie » Tiistai, 10.04.2007 23:30

sentius kirjoitti:The amount on boffering does seem a little exaggerated on last year's photos, but hey, your game, your rules. ;)
Sotahuuto is a pure boffering event with a slight hint of re-enacting in the form of clothes and some equipment. This means that we come to Sotahuuto to hit each other with boffer weapons and have fun in some other ways only when not smashing our opponents to the ground (not literally of course) on the field. In other words boffering is the main dish in our event, it is also the dessert and quite a lot of other dishes I can't remember the name for :). There are of course other activities in the evening such as dancing, sauna, socializing etc. where one can take a break from day's hard fighting and relax or exert his/her body even more. :D
"Pointy thing in squishy bits makes splodgy mess."
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Sorontur
Asemies
Viestit: 10
Liittynyt: Lauantai, 07.04.2007 01:04
Paikkakunta: Tartu, Estonia

Viesti Kirjoittaja Sorontur » Tiistai, 10.04.2007 23:53

Archibald kirjoitti:Personally I would be most interested in innovations from abroad, especially the bamboo sticks. Is it common there?
Using bamboo depends more on availability, it isn't easy to aquire sticks with the right thickness. I believe PVC is still used most widely, as it can be bought from nearly any hardware store.

The mass of the bamboo sticks isn't too big to be dangerous and they don't break as easily as PVC. They are perfect for spears, halberds etc. as they also bend less than PVC, making long weapons look less banana-like. The down-side is that when they break they tend to give splinters, but I haven't heared anybody has been injured by them - the pieces stay snugly in the padding.
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KEK
Nostoväki
Viestit: 5
Liittynyt: Keskiviikko, 04.04.2007 23:33
Paikkakunta: Tallinn, Estonia

Viesti Kirjoittaja KEK » Keskiviikko, 11.04.2007 01:36

Sorontur kirjoitti:
Archibald kirjoitti:Personally I would be most interested in innovations from abroad, especially the bamboo sticks. Is it common there?
Using bamboo depends more on availability, it isn't easy to aquire sticks with the right thickness. I believe PVC is still used most widely, as it can be bought from nearly any hardware store.

The mass of the bamboo sticks isn't too big to be dangerous and they don't break as easily as PVC. They are perfect for spears, halberds etc. as they also bend less than PVC, making long weapons look less banana-like. The down-side is that when they break they tend to give splinters, but I haven't heared anybody has been injured by them - the pieces stay snugly in the padding.
Bamboo in spears, halberds ect. is almost a must in estonia.
It weights really little, but is a lot stronger then pvc pipe, it is sufficiently flexible and another great thing is, that because you can use a bamboo with a lot smaller diameter than pvc, it means you can put boffer everywhere on the shaft and it is still usable, this makes the weapons a little more safer.
And the splintering is more of an up-side then the down-side, because it wont create any cutting edges that can cut through the boffer, this some times happens when pvc breaks.
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Bernard
Kapteeni
Viestit: 119
Liittynyt: Keskiviikko, 04.04.2007 02:57
Paikkakunta: Tallinn, Estonia
Viesti:

Viesti Kirjoittaja Bernard » Keskiviikko, 11.04.2007 03:31

The discussion about costs and money is irrelevant - it costs what it costs, there are people who earn a lot in Finland and in Estonia, the same goes for people who earn a little.

The costs are pretty reasonable, all things considered. So we can drop that pointless discussion.

Yes. It will cost substantially more than going to a Estonian game for us.
Yes. We'll have to modify equipment or build new and it will cost also a lot.

Those who can will come - those who can't, won't - simple.

I hate to give out preliminary information - but my club is organizing a joint going with a rented bus for about 35-45 people. Others are free to join in when the details are clear. We'll see what comes of that.
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Vieras

Viesti Kirjoittaja Vieras » Keskiviikko, 11.04.2007 10:24

BlueSkie kirjoitti:
sentius kirjoitti:The amount on boffering does seem a little exaggerated on last year's photos, but hey, your game, your rules. ;)
Sotahuuto is a pure boffering event with a slight hint of re-enacting in the form of clothes and some equipment. This means that we come to Sotahuuto to hit each other with boffer weapons and have fun in some other ways only when not smashing our opponents to the ground (not literally of course) on the field. In other words boffering is the main dish in our event, it is also the dessert and quite a lot of other dishes I can't remember the name for :). There are of course other activities in the evening such as dancing, sauna, socializing etc. where one can take a break from day's hard fighting and relax or exert his/her body even more. :D
That's right 8) Also must be pointed out that in our rules hitting to the head and thrusting/stabbing with swords is allowed, points which demand weapons to be padded more heavily. (Or am I right that in your games thrusting with swords isn't allowed? At least I didn't see any thrusting-paddings in the top of yours swords.)


Sentius. Allowing glass fiber cores are under discussion in the finnish boards at the moment, but most likely they wont be allowed in this years Sotahuuto.
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saloneju
Keisari
Viestit: 5706
Liittynyt: Keskiviikko, 19.04.2006 23:26
Paikkakunta: Tampere

Viesti Kirjoittaja saloneju » Keskiviikko, 11.04.2007 10:27

Argh, I always do that (writing messages by quest-account because in the finnish forums it isn't possible).

Sentius. What do you mean by 2nd gen boffers?
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sentius
Asemies
Viestit: 10
Liittynyt: Sunnuntai, 08.04.2007 00:22
Paikkakunta: tartu/tallinn

Viesti Kirjoittaja sentius » Keskiviikko, 11.04.2007 12:25

We usually divide boffers into 3 generations:

1st gen is what is mostly seen on your 2006 event photos - most commonly a simple pvc core with circular padding around. It's the cheapest and most easy to build. Weapons need a healthy amount of imagination to look like their real-life counterparts.

2nd gen is widely used in estonia. It consists mostly of two layers of hiker's mat (donät know the exact english term - the kind of mat that comes in a roll and is put under your sleeping bag in a tent - usually called "lebomatt" in estonian) for padding with a bamboo or solid fiberglass(not tubular!) core. The mat foam is cut into shape using various tehniques from extra sharp knives to electrically heated wires. This gives the weapon (usually a sword, but limited only by imagination and safety) it's distinctive shape, which is covered then by tape. All in all it produces a very swordlike boffersword, which doesn't brake as easily as 1st gen and is safe to use. Weapon weight is reduced and speed gained - I've taken my most painful blows from 1st gen boffers, 2nd gen is an improvement in all aspects.
Our weapons do have a thrusting tip, but if my memory serves me right, the standard is 5cm, not 10cm like your's. I actually think that the 10cm thrusting tip rule is a very good one, especially as the head and nech are vieable targets - in most estonian rules-systems they are strictly taboo.

3rd gen is constructed pretty much like 2nd gen, but instead of the tape several layers of special latex are added. This furthermore increases the durability of the weapon and looks even better, much better. The only downside is the cost of the latex and the somewhat more advanced skills needed, compared to building 1st or 2nd gen boffers.

This is just a brief explanation, there are some boffers that lie somewhere between generations, your boffers seem mostly "1,5" gen (tubular shape with added sides on a sword).

Also I'd like to point out, that I'm no mastercraftsman and have accomplished crafting some reasonable 2nd gen boffers, how the latex process exactly works is known to craftier crafters, Bernard, for example.
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ehk meeter hammast ja tilluke tuvi otsas.
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Bernard
Kapteeni
Viestit: 119
Liittynyt: Keskiviikko, 04.04.2007 02:57
Paikkakunta: Tallinn, Estonia
Viesti:

Viesti Kirjoittaja Bernard » Keskiviikko, 11.04.2007 13:15

Anonymous kirjoitti:That's right 8) Also must be pointed out that in our rules hitting to the head and thrusting/stabbing with swords is allowed, points which demand weapons to be padded more heavily. (Or am I right that in your games thrusting with swords isn't allowed? At least I didn't see any thrusting-paddings in the top of yours swords.
Our weapons are wholly boffered - that includes at least 5cm padding in the tip and reinforcement to prevent the former from cutting through boffering.

Thrusting is ALWAYS allowed. In many medium-contact games headshots are allowed. In full-contact games headshots and hand-to-hand combat is allowed.

This is a general discussion topic. Weapon standards are discussed here:
http://snild.laatikko.org/sotahuuto/viewtopic.php?t=910

(scenarios and game styles here: http://snild.laatikko.org/sotahuuto/viewtopic.php?t=906)

Please post your questions and comments in the respective topics. Same thematics in two topics makes it very hard for me to follow and answer . Also I have to copy posts - and double-posting is a nuisance for readers and moderators alike.
Beat up new and interesting people, Nordic Equinox 2013

13.-15. September

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saloneju
Keisari
Viestit: 5706
Liittynyt: Keskiviikko, 19.04.2006 23:26
Paikkakunta: Tampere

Viesti Kirjoittaja saloneju » Keskiviikko, 11.04.2007 13:42

Ok, that answers for a lot sentius. If I understood correctly from your explanation of 2nd gen boffers, they're banned here, according to the safety rules. Someone, who understood the explanation in other way may correct me. But anyway, at least here in Finland some larp-players use also that 2nd gen -type of boffers to gain better looks to their weapons, but they really hurt a lot and are not safe. (And because of that I think that your estonian design vary from this because you can call it somehow safer :wink:) But anyway, weapon standards discussion is indeed on the other topic. It would be nice to see some close up / making of -pictures from your 2nd gen type weapons! Seems like Keisari_P has already posted some pictures of Finnish weapons in the respective thread.

But Bernard, I must point that as a Welcome-thread this is a thread for "first feelings" - whether they be comparing these two countries' weapon and/or armor standards, reasonable prices of coming from Tallinn to Espoo or Estonian 1-3rd generation weapons. If people want to mention or discuss lightly from those things, I think the conversation itself shouldn't be killed with accusing whole conversation being "pointless". If some people want to underline and spend time to handle such things, let them. But yes, we do share the same opinion about posting a thread of its own for more explicit topics/discussion, and nice that you reminded of the other threads :wink: Its true that there general discussion -kind of threads tend to get rather big because of excess topics being discussed in the same thread at the same time.
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Saad
Kapteeni
Viestit: 126
Liittynyt: Maanantai, 19.03.2007 23:06
Paikkakunta: Sibbo - Åbo
Viesti:

Viesti Kirjoittaja Saad » Torstai, 12.04.2007 01:55

Cheers,

Nice to have some international charm to the blood splattered on the field 8)

I suppose you don't happen to be the same chaps who were in the Faerun III 5th of april '03?
οικογενειακή εστία
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Bernard
Kapteeni
Viestit: 119
Liittynyt: Keskiviikko, 04.04.2007 02:57
Paikkakunta: Tallinn, Estonia
Viesti:

Viesti Kirjoittaja Bernard » Torstai, 12.04.2007 02:11

Unfortunately I missed that going by a hair. Sadly I don't think any of the old crew will come - but you'll never know, they just might.

To my knowledge, the first visit of Estonian players on a Finnish larp:
http://www.dragon.ee/albums/soomes/soomes_001.jpg

(nearly 4 years ago :) )

The full album, who's interested:
http://www.dragon.ee/gallery/soomes
Viimeksi muokannut Bernard, Torstai, 12.04.2007 02:14. Yhteensä muokattu 1 kertaa.
Beat up new and interesting people, Nordic Equinox 2013

13.-15. September

http://www.ancalagon.ee
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saloneju
Keisari
Viestit: 5706
Liittynyt: Keskiviikko, 19.04.2006 23:26
Paikkakunta: Tampere

Viesti Kirjoittaja saloneju » Torstai, 12.04.2007 16:00

Hey, that's my mothers scarf in the picture! (the red one) :D

http://www.dragon.ee/gallery/soomes/Untitled_12
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Dan
Kersantti
Viestit: 41
Liittynyt: Torstai, 05.04.2007 10:38
Paikkakunta: Saku, Estonia

Viesti Kirjoittaja Dan » Torstai, 12.04.2007 17:34

One thing that i haven't seen anywhere... yet.

How is arranged watching over players on Sotahuuto, e.g. looking that somebody doesn't cheat and so on ?
orbitti
Paroni
Viestit: 226
Liittynyt: Keskiviikko, 01.02.2006 21:25

Viesti Kirjoittaja orbitti » Torstai, 12.04.2007 17:51

Primary peer perssure (one count's only taken hits) and secondary by gloria points which are awarded by judges after hearing other players opinions (hey, he doesn't count hits taken).
Negatiivista gloriaa tarjolla kestotilauksena vuoden ympäri.
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